Anwar:
raghs, morning.
me:
afternoon
Anwar:
r u finished or complete or completely finished???
me:
i am complete but not yet finished
Anwar:
hahaahahahaha
who has drawn the narshima portrait ( facebook )
me:
not sure, just got it on the net
Anwar:
hmm. so many friends named narsimha for you! is a famous name in your sect???
me:
Yes, as you may be aware, in Hinduism, we worship HIM in "archa" form,
ie vigraha roopam
Since, HE is so great, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc... it is not humanly possible to c him in that glory, for that reason HE makes HIMSELF seeable to us in the form we desire
In the process - the dasavatharam happened - to give us HIS presence and also to set the DHARMA right whenever ADHARMA sets in
Narasimha Avatar was one of the avatars - man - lion form
Anwar:
yes,
one more question?
me:
sure shoot
Anwar:
in all the avatars the companion of krishna ( I mean meera or gopika or seetha .... ) is present .
me:
yes -
Anwar:
but is she also accompany him in the other avatars like narshimha, vamana etc
me:
Yes, it is slightly delicate concept
The aspect of gender and sex in material sense is entirely different in Spiritual sense.
Anwar:
i mean in avatars where he manifest himself in non human forms
dont mistake me for asking this
me:
THere is a general tendency to label HIM in the same bracket as ourselves in human behaviour
But HE is beyond.
one min, let me complete and i will take your question
So, in the belief, we are all 'females' yearnign for HIM - (not for material kaamam, but spiritual kaamam,)
If you follow the 'sufi saints' songs, you may understand this
In the Vaishnavite belief, "thayar" is very important
as a means to reach HIM
Hence, in every avatar HE has a consort as the enabler for us to HIM
now - your question
Anwar:
are we humans interpret the epics as it suits us or is it really the way as you explain??????I feel strongly that we weave the story as it suits the time we live and crown the story with a morale which is apt.
dont beat around the topic,. i need a straight answer
me:
No, all these stories are not told to suit one's own theories, but have a very strong basis, logic and lead to the ultimate purpose of reaching HIM
If not for HIS avatars, HIS words, HIS creations, the sages / messengers, we would never have known HM - correct
With our limited faculties, we are totally incapable of understanding INFINITY, that is HIM
HE is flawless and an embodiment of all good qualities - which we cannot even grasp
qualities such as "paratvam", "saulabhyam", "karuna", "kripa", etc
Anwar:
I am not in argumentative state but just to clarify..... did you notice that in one of the story - krishna in form of a pig with horns ( varaha - avatar I suppose ) lift the earth and throw it in the sea.... How is that possible??
me:
these qualities are innumerable and beyond our comprehension in human state
But it was HE in pig avatar and HIS strength is immense, secondly size of the PIG was very big "viswaroopam"
IN the belief, "earth" is mother earth - bhooma devi
Just think it differently - the earth from a cosmos point of view
as we now know the earth is held in position by various gravtational pull in the orbit in the solar system
the size of the creation is huge
in vedic texts the earth does not refer to our earth.. rather it refers to the entire universe
Anwar:
Humans always need a saviour or leader to follow or to blame for the miseries and hence each group based on the regional clusters forms a leader and name ( whatever name ) HIM so as find solace that we are unto HIM and whatever happens is because of HIM so as to get rid of any moral or social binding in large sense
me:
I think you are heading in the right direction of hte argument
OK, let us start this way - what is the purpose of CREATION?
Anwar:
in my jargon, only to worship the god and find salvation to reach him
me:
oh come on that is still a very general and bordering on the periphery
try to go deeper - try
Anwar:
as per Quran, God has created humans representing him in a form and wished or commanded that humans shall worship him alone and find his own way thr' deeds to him in the aftermath
me:
OK - maybe if you delve deeper the esoteric meanings would have more meanings, but for now, let us discuss what you quoted
No arguments - HE created the world
No arguments - HE has created the world for US
No arguments - HE has created the world for all of us to worship HIM
No arguments - He has created the world to provide us a place where we can practice the act of worshipping HIM with all the limitations that a material world imposes and then qualify and reach HIM in the heavens where we can continue serving HIM without the material trappings
Correct?
Anwar:
raghs, I am just challenging the norms so that to get a better understanding. dont get me wrong
me:
no no
i am not for a moment countering
i am just trying to establish the common ground
Anwar:
ok yes ok
me:
in the arguments above, it is absolutely the same as per our belief too
as far as HE is concerned, as far as our relation to HIM is concerned
Anwar:
hmmm
me:
Maybe when we meet, if i can give you the full context of the world you will understand that behind the divisions there is a big line of connection, which eludes most of us
If we all agree - there is ONE creator, and this world is HIS creation, and that we are all subservient to HIM, then the rest is easy
if we agree on the above, that means all the creation are HIS child
and the divisions and processes and the practices that exist are all there within HIS domain
Anwar:
yes, lets get into the real question? Is that HE wants from us? I mean subservience????
me:
Surely, HE would not create anyone of us inferior for the final goal of attaining HIM
there are differences from man to man, but there should be no discrimination because of that
in asmuch as HE has sent messengers to one part of hte world, so has HE in other parts,
but, alas, we Humans, cannot live as per HIS principles and start to build empires to satisfy our egos and disable us from reaching HIM
As per Old testament - the age of the world as derived by humans is only about as far as 4000+BC or so - right Anwar, but today we knwo that our own earth has been there for millions of years and we have found fossils of much earlier. So does that mean the Holy Texts are wrong - NO. It is our interpretation that is wrong
What is required is a meeting together of all spiritual minds to understand the enormity of HIM and HIS qualities - remember I was mentioning :kalyana gunas
In Islam, many of HIS qualities are sung : i do hear the aazaan and wonder what it could mean, but I am sure, it is singing HIS glory
Maybe someday, I will go through the literary meanings
Anwar:
yes. exactly. NOW we find that the predictions or the sayings are wrong which has been believed for 2000+ years. So, what is the actual truth we are searching which is universal and stable.
me:
In Hinduism too we pray HIS glory
You are right - the predictions as given by humans are wrong, not the scriptures, so it means we have to go back to school to meditate, study and understand
and in that mode we have to be filled with compassion and lvoe
Please note - if we look for differences, we will find differences, if we look for similarities, we will be surprised at the oneness of purpose of all paths
Ok, to give you a context, Hinduism was a word coined later, originally it is referred to as Sanatana Dharma - which is comprehensive compendium on how to lead life
Anwar:
so, are you saying that except for the overall belief that we are all created for HIS worship and running towards the goal of reaching him, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL TRUTH. Why we are here????
me:
It explains the purpose of creation, the relation of us to HIM and our duties amongst other things
wait wait - in summary you are right
As per Sanatana Dharma there is no beginning or end, the whole concept of time is in the material sphere and is cyclical
HE has two stages - the eternal sphere and the material sphere
Anwar:
yes
me:
material sphere is subject to the ramifications of time
time is cyclical
hence the 4 yugas - satya yuga, treta yuga, dwapar yuga and kali yuga
kali yuga = 432000 human years
dwapar = 2* kali, treat = 3* kali and Satya = 4* kali, total of one chatur yuga = 4.32million human years
1000 cycles of this = 1 day of Brahma; creation happens during hte day of Brahma
Anwar:
uyes
me:
another 1000 cycles of this = 1 night of Brahma = during this creation is not there
every Brahma (brahma is a post) has 100 Brahma years of life
after every day of Brahma, there is mini deluge where the first three worlds get destroyed
after every life of Brahma, the entire creation gets destroyed
Size of creation - the material creation is as follows
our Earth is part of one solar system in one milky way galaxy
There are millions of solar systems in this milky way
There are millions of galaxies in one set of universe
There are millions of sets of universe comprising one mega universe
All this together form one : "anda" cosmic egg
ANd there are millions of Cosmic eggs
Anwar:
yes
me:
Beyond comprehension and absolutely amazing....
Each Cosmic Egg has one Brahma as its head
Each Cosmic egg has 7 worlds above and 7 worlds below - the heavens and the hell and with earth in between
Each human being is judged by his deeds - aka - "karma" and qualified for appropriate consequence
surely 100 human years for one person is not enough to undergo all this,
hence the logic that the body is temporary, soul is permanent
and hence the soul needs body to perform deeds
and if he performs good deeds, he gets heavens
and if he performs bad deeds, he gets hell
so the human needs to forego both good deeds and the bad deeds
for HE is beyond the heaven and hell
HIS is the eternal creation
Anwar:
if what you say is beyond human comprehension and how did you comprehend what you say?
me:
COming back to material creation
All the millions of Cosmic Egg comprise HIS material creation
This is just 1/4th of HIS entire size
3/4ths comprise of HIS eternal kingdome
..........
yes beyond comprehension - to understand that this is beyond comprehension is the thing
not comprehend the creation and the size
I am quoting from what is given in the Vedas and related texts
............
so the soul needs more than 100 years to really achieve maturity
Anwar:
hmmm. ok. ok
me:
so it has to take many bodies
taking bodies are determined by the karma
so he can be born as a dog, donkey, lion, man, woman, you, me depending on the balance of deeds
Anwar:
hmmm
me:
and then there are great periods where the soul can be loitering yearning for a body for millions of years
it may rest in the rocks, mountains, etc
so our human life is the only form which gives us the benefit of performing deeds to attain HIM
and we all should realise this.
Unfortunately - most if not all have lost hte plot
Anwar:
hmmm
me:
and engage in pursuit of material things
Anwar:
very true
me:
Anwar - every religion has its own store of messages
the gist is - path unto HIM
let us follow in peace our paths - for it is not possible for our limited faculties to do everything that i prescribed in all scriptures
Anwar:
many even fight the battle even to sustain the life, so where the time and effort to get a grasp of what we discuss. we are fortunate to atleast be in the stage where we are
me:
but what HE has promised - we will get if we follow in Believing HIM
yes you are rihgt
the fact that they are fighting for life - is a result of their past misdeeds
that is why HE has commanded us to help the needy ones
Anwar:
yes true.
me:
There are philosophical differences between the religions
it lies in the final perception of how HE is defined
Anwar:
have you voted for our guy called krishnan in CNN for the heroic effort he ndertake of feeding the neglected ones?
me:
As per Islam, too, many have held that HE is without body or form and a flash of light - right
Anwar:
sorry. yes, go on
me:
is what i said above more or less right
Anwar:
rahgs, I get a clarity when I speak to you but again mind get misty as I encounter different kinds of situation in life.
me:
sure
Anwar:
I wonder again and again the same thing.
me:
ok, let us go with what I have tried to find from Islam - that HE is formless
Anwar:
Why we are here? what is the truth? All what we do here, is it worth doing?
me:
But there are texts in Quran which mentions HIS qualities and indicate having Forms
But that is not the general perception
Even in our Hinduism we have too schools - one that says HE is formless, the other that HE cannot be limited by any definition. If we say HE is formless, it may signify a limitation and since HE is without limitations.
HE takes forms for our sake so taht we can relate better to HIM
Anwar:
yes, Quran implies that HE have forms but it is just for the sake of understanding. Truly HE is formless or HE is beyond our imagination.
me:
Back to your question :
Ok, we will debate the statement of forms and formlessness later
Anwar:
ok
me:
But first -
1) we are here to do deeds and forego both paavam adn punyam and redeem ourselves from this material world and attain the eternal world
2) The truth is we are HIS adimai (not in the material sense, but in spiritual sense - with full freedom, rights, love and compassion,)
and our duty is do service UNTO HIM
both in material world and finally in the eternal world after we attain HIM
Anwar:
yes
me:
3) What we are doing is not worth - if we do it without this knowledge of our relation to HIM and unaware of final destination. It is not worth if we do not live the principles that HE laid down. It is not worth, if we cahse all things material. It is not worht it, if we hate any poriton of HIS creation
IT is worth doing if we live the life according to current circumstances, but with a sense of sacrifice
"ella perumaiyum iraivannukke" - hv you heard this
sacrifice all the results of material deeds unto HIM and surrender unto HIM.
Anwar:
yes, it seems that you have very good grasp of islamic teachings
me:
in all sense, not mere lipsync
thank you, to tell you the truth, you were / are one of my inspirations - not only for islamic thinking, but the spirituality in entirety
Anwar:
yes
me:
So we need to decide now
what is it worth living for :
live out the values as espoused by HIM
try to go through the scriptures in harmony and look for love and compassion all around.
Anwar:
dont pull my leg. I am a tiny speck trying to understand who I am?
me:
As I said, if we look at differences, we will get differences, but if we look for harmony and love, we get love and harmony and attain HIM. For surely, HE is not limited enough to make HIS creation - unreconciling...
Trust me - we all are
We are equal in that respect - the aspiring soul without a beginning but have the certainty of an end - that is the transition to the eternal world
I used to have lots of useful discussions with Dhulfaqar
He was also one of the inspirations
no jokes intended
Anwar:
yes
but really, you have tremendous growth in spiritual sense.
me:
"ella perumai iraivannukke"
"all credit to HIM"
Anwar:
I wish to be like you but
me:
as usual - can i post this on my blog
did you check out my blog on enablers
Anwar:
how many hurdles a day to pass.
me:
dont let that worry
we have been there for millions of years in some form or other
Anwar:
I am checking all your blogs. did you see, I always check your custom messages and your facebook entries
me:
today we are blessed to be as humans and at least talking about spirituality
it is the first step to realisation
sure - i noted
HE and his Glories are ever there
the form, medium has changed from yuga to yuga
HE has tried all the best ways to reach us - through Vedas, Gita, Upanishads, Puranas, Itihasas, the Holy Quran, the Testaments.... through personal manifestations, through nominated persons - empowered messengers, through us
The least we can do is to recognise HIS effort to reach us. When we see that, our efforts are zilch
Anwar:
raghs. in our next discussion, I would like you to deliver some light on the topic " HUMAN EXPECTATIONS & NEGATIVE OUTCOMES "
me:
boss - where do you get such fancy titles
Anwar: sorry for the lag.
I wanted to discuss about our limit less expectation what we have in our life and the outcome of the expectations depending upon the sitaution
if you see that we would remember the 10 in one negative outcome but failed to appreciate the 9 out of 10 positive outcome?
but not all are same.
me:
the secret is to understand the futility of hte material world
Anwar:
mature people appreciate ven the negative outcome and they learn from that
not ordinary people like me.
me:
sure
this world is a mix of happiness and sorrow - if we chose to stick to material
if it was all sorrow, none of us would have wnated to live here
but is because of the one in 10 happiness that makes us expect
and hence keeps us ever in expectation
Anwar:
I am taking about the actual situation. raghs tell me if you are really caught in the bad situation ( touch wood ) are you sure you will apply the same mindset. I am sure NO. only when we discuss here, our minds are free so we discuss freely
me:
if we understand the guiles of this world we can come out
do we have a choice if we are in a bad situation
but to go through
Anwar:
but when we are in distress our minds are align mostly towards negative way
me:
undestand the basis of that distress - it is the expectations that did not materialise
Anwar:
yes. unmaterialized expectations. that would be what i would be asking you in our next sessions
raghs, morning.
me:
afternoon
Anwar:
r u finished or complete or completely finished???
me:
i am complete but not yet finished
Anwar:
hahaahahahaha
who has drawn the narshima portrait ( facebook )
me:
not sure, just got it on the net
Anwar:
hmm. so many friends named narsimha for you! is a famous name in your sect???
me:
Yes, as you may be aware, in Hinduism, we worship HIM in "archa" form,
ie vigraha roopam
Since, HE is so great, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc... it is not humanly possible to c him in that glory, for that reason HE makes HIMSELF seeable to us in the form we desire
In the process - the dasavatharam happened - to give us HIS presence and also to set the DHARMA right whenever ADHARMA sets in
Narasimha Avatar was one of the avatars - man - lion form
Anwar:
yes,
one more question?
me:
sure shoot
Anwar:
in all the avatars the companion of krishna ( I mean meera or gopika or seetha .... ) is present .
me:
yes -
Anwar:
but is she also accompany him in the other avatars like narshimha, vamana etc
me:
Yes, it is slightly delicate concept
The aspect of gender and sex in material sense is entirely different in Spiritual sense.
Anwar:
i mean in avatars where he manifest himself in non human forms
dont mistake me for asking this
me:
THere is a general tendency to label HIM in the same bracket as ourselves in human behaviour
But HE is beyond.
one min, let me complete and i will take your question
So, in the belief, we are all 'females' yearnign for HIM - (not for material kaamam, but spiritual kaamam,)
If you follow the 'sufi saints' songs, you may understand this
In the Vaishnavite belief, "thayar" is very important
as a means to reach HIM
Hence, in every avatar HE has a consort as the enabler for us to HIM
now - your question
Anwar:
are we humans interpret the epics as it suits us or is it really the way as you explain??????I feel strongly that we weave the story as it suits the time we live and crown the story with a morale which is apt.
dont beat around the topic,. i need a straight answer
me:
No, all these stories are not told to suit one's own theories, but have a very strong basis, logic and lead to the ultimate purpose of reaching HIM
If not for HIS avatars, HIS words, HIS creations, the sages / messengers, we would never have known HM - correct
With our limited faculties, we are totally incapable of understanding INFINITY, that is HIM
HE is flawless and an embodiment of all good qualities - which we cannot even grasp
qualities such as "paratvam", "saulabhyam", "karuna", "kripa", etc
Anwar:
I am not in argumentative state but just to clarify..... did you notice that in one of the story - krishna in form of a pig with horns ( varaha - avatar I suppose ) lift the earth and throw it in the sea.... How is that possible??
me:
these qualities are innumerable and beyond our comprehension in human state
But it was HE in pig avatar and HIS strength is immense, secondly size of the PIG was very big "viswaroopam"
IN the belief, "earth" is mother earth - bhooma devi
Just think it differently - the earth from a cosmos point of view
as we now know the earth is held in position by various gravtational pull in the orbit in the solar system
the size of the creation is huge
in vedic texts the earth does not refer to our earth.. rather it refers to the entire universe
Anwar:
Humans always need a saviour or leader to follow or to blame for the miseries and hence each group based on the regional clusters forms a leader and name ( whatever name ) HIM so as find solace that we are unto HIM and whatever happens is because of HIM so as to get rid of any moral or social binding in large sense
me:
I think you are heading in the right direction of hte argument
OK, let us start this way - what is the purpose of CREATION?
Anwar:
in my jargon, only to worship the god and find salvation to reach him
me:
oh come on that is still a very general and bordering on the periphery
try to go deeper - try
Anwar:
as per Quran, God has created humans representing him in a form and wished or commanded that humans shall worship him alone and find his own way thr' deeds to him in the aftermath
me:
OK - maybe if you delve deeper the esoteric meanings would have more meanings, but for now, let us discuss what you quoted
No arguments - HE created the world
No arguments - HE has created the world for US
No arguments - HE has created the world for all of us to worship HIM
No arguments - He has created the world to provide us a place where we can practice the act of worshipping HIM with all the limitations that a material world imposes and then qualify and reach HIM in the heavens where we can continue serving HIM without the material trappings
Correct?
Anwar:
raghs, I am just challenging the norms so that to get a better understanding. dont get me wrong
me:
no no
i am not for a moment countering
i am just trying to establish the common ground
Anwar:
ok yes ok
me:
in the arguments above, it is absolutely the same as per our belief too
as far as HE is concerned, as far as our relation to HIM is concerned
Anwar:
hmmm
me:
Maybe when we meet, if i can give you the full context of the world you will understand that behind the divisions there is a big line of connection, which eludes most of us
If we all agree - there is ONE creator, and this world is HIS creation, and that we are all subservient to HIM, then the rest is easy
if we agree on the above, that means all the creation are HIS child
and the divisions and processes and the practices that exist are all there within HIS domain
Anwar:
yes, lets get into the real question? Is that HE wants from us? I mean subservience????
me:
Surely, HE would not create anyone of us inferior for the final goal of attaining HIM
there are differences from man to man, but there should be no discrimination because of that
in asmuch as HE has sent messengers to one part of hte world, so has HE in other parts,
but, alas, we Humans, cannot live as per HIS principles and start to build empires to satisfy our egos and disable us from reaching HIM
As per Old testament - the age of the world as derived by humans is only about as far as 4000+BC or so - right Anwar, but today we knwo that our own earth has been there for millions of years and we have found fossils of much earlier. So does that mean the Holy Texts are wrong - NO. It is our interpretation that is wrong
What is required is a meeting together of all spiritual minds to understand the enormity of HIM and HIS qualities - remember I was mentioning :kalyana gunas
In Islam, many of HIS qualities are sung : i do hear the aazaan and wonder what it could mean, but I am sure, it is singing HIS glory
Maybe someday, I will go through the literary meanings
Anwar:
yes. exactly. NOW we find that the predictions or the sayings are wrong which has been believed for 2000+ years. So, what is the actual truth we are searching which is universal and stable.
me:
In Hinduism too we pray HIS glory
You are right - the predictions as given by humans are wrong, not the scriptures, so it means we have to go back to school to meditate, study and understand
and in that mode we have to be filled with compassion and lvoe
Please note - if we look for differences, we will find differences, if we look for similarities, we will be surprised at the oneness of purpose of all paths
Ok, to give you a context, Hinduism was a word coined later, originally it is referred to as Sanatana Dharma - which is comprehensive compendium on how to lead life
Anwar:
so, are you saying that except for the overall belief that we are all created for HIS worship and running towards the goal of reaching him, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL TRUTH. Why we are here????
me:
It explains the purpose of creation, the relation of us to HIM and our duties amongst other things
wait wait - in summary you are right
As per Sanatana Dharma there is no beginning or end, the whole concept of time is in the material sphere and is cyclical
HE has two stages - the eternal sphere and the material sphere
Anwar:
yes
me:
material sphere is subject to the ramifications of time
time is cyclical
hence the 4 yugas - satya yuga, treta yuga, dwapar yuga and kali yuga
kali yuga = 432000 human years
dwapar = 2* kali, treat = 3* kali and Satya = 4* kali, total of one chatur yuga = 4.32million human years
1000 cycles of this = 1 day of Brahma; creation happens during hte day of Brahma
Anwar:
uyes
me:
another 1000 cycles of this = 1 night of Brahma = during this creation is not there
every Brahma (brahma is a post) has 100 Brahma years of life
after every day of Brahma, there is mini deluge where the first three worlds get destroyed
after every life of Brahma, the entire creation gets destroyed
Size of creation - the material creation is as follows
our Earth is part of one solar system in one milky way galaxy
There are millions of solar systems in this milky way
There are millions of galaxies in one set of universe
There are millions of sets of universe comprising one mega universe
All this together form one : "anda" cosmic egg
ANd there are millions of Cosmic eggs
Anwar:
yes
me:
Beyond comprehension and absolutely amazing....
Each Cosmic Egg has one Brahma as its head
Each Cosmic egg has 7 worlds above and 7 worlds below - the heavens and the hell and with earth in between
Each human being is judged by his deeds - aka - "karma" and qualified for appropriate consequence
surely 100 human years for one person is not enough to undergo all this,
hence the logic that the body is temporary, soul is permanent
and hence the soul needs body to perform deeds
and if he performs good deeds, he gets heavens
and if he performs bad deeds, he gets hell
so the human needs to forego both good deeds and the bad deeds
for HE is beyond the heaven and hell
HIS is the eternal creation
Anwar:
if what you say is beyond human comprehension and how did you comprehend what you say?
me:
COming back to material creation
All the millions of Cosmic Egg comprise HIS material creation
This is just 1/4th of HIS entire size
3/4ths comprise of HIS eternal kingdome
..........
yes beyond comprehension - to understand that this is beyond comprehension is the thing
not comprehend the creation and the size
I am quoting from what is given in the Vedas and related texts
............
so the soul needs more than 100 years to really achieve maturity
Anwar:
hmmm. ok. ok
me:
so it has to take many bodies
taking bodies are determined by the karma
so he can be born as a dog, donkey, lion, man, woman, you, me depending on the balance of deeds
Anwar:
hmmm
me:
and then there are great periods where the soul can be loitering yearning for a body for millions of years
it may rest in the rocks, mountains, etc
so our human life is the only form which gives us the benefit of performing deeds to attain HIM
and we all should realise this.
Unfortunately - most if not all have lost hte plot
Anwar:
hmmm
me:
and engage in pursuit of material things
Anwar:
very true
me:
Anwar - every religion has its own store of messages
the gist is - path unto HIM
let us follow in peace our paths - for it is not possible for our limited faculties to do everything that i prescribed in all scriptures
Anwar:
many even fight the battle even to sustain the life, so where the time and effort to get a grasp of what we discuss. we are fortunate to atleast be in the stage where we are
me:
but what HE has promised - we will get if we follow in Believing HIM
yes you are rihgt
the fact that they are fighting for life - is a result of their past misdeeds
that is why HE has commanded us to help the needy ones
Anwar:
yes true.
me:
There are philosophical differences between the religions
it lies in the final perception of how HE is defined
Anwar:
have you voted for our guy called krishnan in CNN for the heroic effort he ndertake of feeding the neglected ones?
me:
As per Islam, too, many have held that HE is without body or form and a flash of light - right
Anwar:
sorry. yes, go on
me:
is what i said above more or less right
Anwar:
rahgs, I get a clarity when I speak to you but again mind get misty as I encounter different kinds of situation in life.
me:
sure
Anwar:
I wonder again and again the same thing.
me:
ok, let us go with what I have tried to find from Islam - that HE is formless
Anwar:
Why we are here? what is the truth? All what we do here, is it worth doing?
me:
But there are texts in Quran which mentions HIS qualities and indicate having Forms
But that is not the general perception
Even in our Hinduism we have too schools - one that says HE is formless, the other that HE cannot be limited by any definition. If we say HE is formless, it may signify a limitation and since HE is without limitations.
HE takes forms for our sake so taht we can relate better to HIM
Anwar:
yes, Quran implies that HE have forms but it is just for the sake of understanding. Truly HE is formless or HE is beyond our imagination.
me:
Back to your question :
Ok, we will debate the statement of forms and formlessness later
Anwar:
ok
me:
But first -
1) we are here to do deeds and forego both paavam adn punyam and redeem ourselves from this material world and attain the eternal world
2) The truth is we are HIS adimai (not in the material sense, but in spiritual sense - with full freedom, rights, love and compassion,)
and our duty is do service UNTO HIM
both in material world and finally in the eternal world after we attain HIM
Anwar:
yes
me:
3) What we are doing is not worth - if we do it without this knowledge of our relation to HIM and unaware of final destination. It is not worth if we do not live the principles that HE laid down. It is not worth, if we cahse all things material. It is not worht it, if we hate any poriton of HIS creation
IT is worth doing if we live the life according to current circumstances, but with a sense of sacrifice
"ella perumaiyum iraivannukke" - hv you heard this
sacrifice all the results of material deeds unto HIM and surrender unto HIM.
Anwar:
yes, it seems that you have very good grasp of islamic teachings
me:
in all sense, not mere lipsync
thank you, to tell you the truth, you were / are one of my inspirations - not only for islamic thinking, but the spirituality in entirety
Anwar:
yes
me:
So we need to decide now
what is it worth living for :
live out the values as espoused by HIM
try to go through the scriptures in harmony and look for love and compassion all around.
Anwar:
dont pull my leg. I am a tiny speck trying to understand who I am?
me:
As I said, if we look at differences, we will get differences, but if we look for harmony and love, we get love and harmony and attain HIM. For surely, HE is not limited enough to make HIS creation - unreconciling...
Trust me - we all are
We are equal in that respect - the aspiring soul without a beginning but have the certainty of an end - that is the transition to the eternal world
I used to have lots of useful discussions with Dhulfaqar
He was also one of the inspirations
no jokes intended
Anwar:
yes
but really, you have tremendous growth in spiritual sense.
me:
"ella perumai iraivannukke"
"all credit to HIM"
Anwar:
I wish to be like you but
me:
as usual - can i post this on my blog
did you check out my blog on enablers
Anwar:
how many hurdles a day to pass.
me:
dont let that worry
we have been there for millions of years in some form or other
Anwar:
I am checking all your blogs. did you see, I always check your custom messages and your facebook entries
me:
today we are blessed to be as humans and at least talking about spirituality
it is the first step to realisation
sure - i noted
HE and his Glories are ever there
the form, medium has changed from yuga to yuga
HE has tried all the best ways to reach us - through Vedas, Gita, Upanishads, Puranas, Itihasas, the Holy Quran, the Testaments.... through personal manifestations, through nominated persons - empowered messengers, through us
The least we can do is to recognise HIS effort to reach us. When we see that, our efforts are zilch
Anwar:
raghs. in our next discussion, I would like you to deliver some light on the topic " HUMAN EXPECTATIONS & NEGATIVE OUTCOMES "
me:
boss - where do you get such fancy titles
Anwar: sorry for the lag.
I wanted to discuss about our limit less expectation what we have in our life and the outcome of the expectations depending upon the sitaution
if you see that we would remember the 10 in one negative outcome but failed to appreciate the 9 out of 10 positive outcome?
but not all are same.
me:
the secret is to understand the futility of hte material world
Anwar:
mature people appreciate ven the negative outcome and they learn from that
not ordinary people like me.
me:
sure
this world is a mix of happiness and sorrow - if we chose to stick to material
if it was all sorrow, none of us would have wnated to live here
but is because of the one in 10 happiness that makes us expect
and hence keeps us ever in expectation
Anwar:
I am taking about the actual situation. raghs tell me if you are really caught in the bad situation ( touch wood ) are you sure you will apply the same mindset. I am sure NO. only when we discuss here, our minds are free so we discuss freely
me:
if we understand the guiles of this world we can come out
do we have a choice if we are in a bad situation
but to go through
Anwar:
but when we are in distress our minds are align mostly towards negative way
me:
undestand the basis of that distress - it is the expectations that did not materialise
Anwar:
yes. unmaterialized expectations. that would be what i would be asking you in our next sessions
